Legislature(2007 - 2008)BUTROVICH 205
03/11/2008 05:30 PM Senate RESOURCES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB267 | |
| SB284 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | SB 284 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 267 | TELECONFERENCED | |
SB 284-BOARD OF FISHERIES: MEMBERSHIP
6:02:25 PM
CHAIR CHARLIE HUGGINS announced SB 284 to be up for
consideration.
SENATOR GREEN moved to bring CSSB 284(RES), version V, before
the committee. There were no objections and it was so ordered.
JANEY WINEINGER, staff to Senator Green, sponsor of SB 284, said
Senator Green introduced this legislation because she saw a lack
of fair and balanced representation on the Board of Fisheries.
She said a letter of support from the board was in their
packets. The letter said that of all 122 boards and commissions,
only four "are as lax as the Board of Fisheries;" one is the
Board of Game.
She stated that AS 16.05.221 says that board members are
appointed by the governor and confirmed by the legislature.
Members are appointed on the basis of interest in public
affairs, good judgment, knowledge and ability in the field of
action of the board with a view to providing diversity of
interest and points of view in the membership. A lot of boards
base membership on geographical requirements along with
certifications, economic requirements or political affiliations.
This is not so for the Board of Fisheries.
The changes in the CS will bring the Board of Fisheries
membership back down to seven members from the nine in the
original bill and creates a guideline based on the user groups.
The proposed board would have two members who represent
commercial fishing interests who do not hold and do not have an
immediate family member who holds a sport fishing operator or
sport fishing guide license; three members who represent
personal use or subsistence fishing interests and who do not
hold and do not have an immediate family member who holds a
commercial fishing permit or crew member permit; a sport fishing
operator license or a sport fishing guide license, or who do not
own or have an immediate family member who owns a commercial
fish processing business; two members who represent sport
fishing interests and who do not hold and do not have an
immediate family member who holds a commercial fishing permit or
crew member permit and do not own or have an immediate family
member who owns a commercial processing business.
She stated that this makeup would guarantee fair and balanced
representation on the Board of Fisheries for years to come
regardless of who may be governor or who may be in a political
leadership position at the Department of Fish and Game.
6:07:14 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked why this CS has a fiscal note.
MS. WINEINGER answered the original legislation increased the
number of board members to nine; now it's back to what the board
is now, seven members.
CHAIR HUGGINS asked if there would be a robust pool of Alaskans
available to pick members from in light of all the exclusions.
MS. WINEINGER answered yes.
SENATOR GREEN remarked that in all practicality, representation
has an unwritten tendency to say there is a Sitka seat, a Kodiak
seat and a Juneau sports fish seat. They are labeled and
geographical identified, but it's not definitive. It would be
better to have more defining descriptors.
MS. WINEINGER added that language doesn't change the makeup of
the board; it just puts it in statute.
CHAIR HUGGINS said this language doesn't preclude a geographical
connotation, but gives some prerequisites for the person's or
his family's background.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked what the current composition of the
board is in terms of sport, subsistence and commercial.
MS. WINEINGER replied currently the members come from diverse
groups geographically; for instance the Juneau, Kodiak, and
Sitka seats.
6:11:00 PM
SENATOR STEVENS commented that for many years there was no
Kodiak seat and they always wanted one, and it happened in time.
SENATOR WAGONER explained that now it isn't a matter of
eligibility; it's a matter of whether a member can deliberate
and vote on certain items or not.
CHAIR HUGGINS said they would want to tighten that language on
members being precluded from voting or from being a member. They
don't want people to continue being conflicted out.
6:12:37 PM
VIRGIL UMPHENOUR, Chairman, Fairbanks Fish and Game Advisory
Committee, North Pole, supported CSSB 284(RES) version V. He
said he served eight years on the Board of Fisheries and felt
that the CS would provide more balance and fairness in the
board's composition. The Yukon River has serious conservation
problems now, basically because of allocation, he said, and the
current board is manipulated by the department.
SENATOR STEVENS asked how things broke down over the years
between commercial, sport and personal use in his experience.
MR. UMPHENOUR replied that it depended on the issue and what
region the board was in. Some regions spend more time on sport
fish issues than commercial. Subsistence and personal use take a
back seat a majority of the time and have very little
representation.
6:17:14 PM
MIKE FENTON, President, Kenai Professional Guide Association,
Sterling, supported SB 284. He said it builds in the potential
for a greater representation of the user groups. The current
arrangement allows too much bias to occur.
ANDY COUCH, representing himself, Mat-Su, said he is a sport
fishing guide and a member of the Matanuska Fish and Game
Advisory Committee; He supported SB 284 saying that the board
has not addressed the state's conservation issues and changing
the makeup of the board to include more user groups like
personal use and subsistence, would help.
6:20:03 PM
WES HUMBYRD, representing himself, Homer, said he had been a
commercial fisherman in Cook Inlet since 1966 and opposed SB
284. He said it looks like another way for commercial fishermen
to manage politically instead of biologically. If politicians
used the same amount of energy on removing the problems in the
Mat-Su drainage, they wouldn't be here discussing this bill.
He related that Mat-Su used to have 32 lakes with pike in them
and now it's up to 162, and there are numerous beavers dams on
all the streams in that area that stop the migration of salmon
destined to the spawning grounds. Also, he said the escapement
counters the department uses are not accurate.
MR. HUMBYRD said Cook Inlet fishermen had not had a commercial
fisherman on the board since 1975. He suggested removing the
pike and the beavers before asking everyone to be "curtailed" to
solve the problem. "Don't make the commercial fishermen again
and again be the sacrificial lamb for sport fish interests in
the Valley and the Kenai area." The real balance on the board
should be three sport, three commercial and one personal use
person. Maybe a good suggestion would be to have commercial
fishing on pike.
CHAIR HUGGINS asked if he would support a buy back system for
permits.
MR. HUMBYRD answered no; that just eliminates people who have
been fishing for years.
6:22:59 PM
BOB PENNY, Cook Inlet Sport Fishing, Soldotna, said he supported
SB 284. He said his first concern was conservation and second,
the unfair allocation for the harvest of salmon in Cook Inlet.
He served on the North Pacific Fisheries Council for one term
and he learned that conservation comes first. Whenever the
stocks get low, stop fishing, he exhorted. When that run is gone
it's gone. He said the Board of Fisheries didn't take the steps
necessary to protect the species and something has to be done to
protect those fish.
6:25:18 PM
MIKE TINKER, representing himself, Fairbanks, said that previous
fish boards have come up with the sustainable salmon management
policy, for example. But in the last five years, the board has
been a disaster for any non-commercial user. The members avoid
their own policies and disrespect the opinions of those opposed
to commercial fishery interests, especially the advisory
committees. "Definitely missing is an Alaska use attitude." The
board did the right thing in the Cook Inlet meeting by finding
chum and sockeye as stocks of concern, but then they did
absolutely nothing to change the intercept fisheries. He
supported CSSB 284 version V.
6:26:44 PM
MONTE ROBERTS, sport fish guide operator, Soldotna, supported SB
284, but he still had some concerns about the board's makeup. He
was fine with the two designated commercial fishing seats, but
the three personal use/subsistence members concerned him. He was
concerned that in two places people with sport fishing
experience were excluded from holding a seat, and at no place
were they guaranteed a seat at the table.
6:28:17 PM
JOHN MCCOMBS, drift gillnet fisherman, Cook Inlet, opposed SB
284. He said the board has already failed to address emerging
fisheries in fully allocated limited entry fisheries and
considerations by gear type aren't going to be the answer.
SENATOR GREEN asked him if he had any recommendations for how to
distinguish membership on the board if not by gear type or
geographic locations.
MR. MCCOMBS replied you need a professional board with trained
scientists. Maybe it needs to be taken out of the political
realm and put in back into the hands of scientists.
6:30:26 PM
BEAVER NELSON, representing himself, Homer, said he is a
commercial, sport and personal use fisherman. He said the
present system has members with varied interests and is working
pretty well. This legislation would turn the board into hard
core members and would limit the pool of qualified candidates.
He stated, "It just narrows things down into special interest
groups again."
6:31:06 PM
BRUCE KNOWLES, representing himself, Willow, said he has served
on the Valley Fish and Game Advisory Committee for about 12
years and supported SB 284. He said the suggestion for the
makeup of the original board was to have it all commercial
fishermen, but that didn't go over, so the qualifications were
changed to what they have today. The only progress the board has
made was during the 90s when it was made up of all the user
groups and developed sound management plans and the sustainable
salmon policy. Good progress was made until commercial interests
took over the board again, "and now we're back in the dark
ages."
6:32:51 PM
RICKY GEASE, Executive Director, Kenai River Sportfishing
Association, Kenai, said he didn't have a problem with the bill
conceptually. He pointed out that some advisory committees
across the state have gone towards designated seats; the Kenai
Soldotna AC designated three seats for commercial permits on the
Kenai River along with hunting and subsistence seats. He said it
seemed to be working there.
He suggested tightening the language in SB 284 so that people
wouldn't be conflicted out, like saying just an immediate family
member couldn't have a commercial license. He liked a lay board,
but thought professionals should be integrated into it for a
good mix. Economic expertise is important and he suggested using
people from the Department of Commerce, Community & Economic
Development. He said the commercial salmon industry is looking
at many ways to improve the quality and economics.
6:35:30 PM
DAVID MARTIN, Chairman, Central Peninsula Advisory Committee,
Clam Gulch, said he had been involved in the Board of Fish
process for over 25 years and had commercially fished in Cook
Inlet for 36 years. He opposed SB 284. When some groups don't
get what they want based strictly on allocation, they cry foul,
and that is what happened in the Upper Cook Inlet Board of
Fisheries meeting. Data shows that the Susitna sonar was
undercounting; the actual count at the weirs verified that
sockeye escapement was being met and exceeded. Scientific data
also showed that the commercial fisheries has been and continues
to be severely restricted from catching northern-bound salmon
stock and that 70-90 percent of the salmon make it into the
rivers. Any problems are not in the salt water; they are in the
river.
MR. MARTIN said SB 284 is the latest maneuver to move the
Soldotna ADF&G department to Anchorage. It is an unfortunate
knee-jerk reaction that will only result in undermining
biological management, the Board of Fisheries process and the
department. He said:
If using reliable scientific data and biological
management is not the mission of the Board of Fish, an
increased (indisc.) to any number of designated seats
will not be in the best long term interest of the
resource and the people of Alaska. They need to learn
from the mistakes of the Lower 48 and keep politics
out of fish and game management and protect our
habitat. Let the biologists do their job and the
legislature do their job - like funding the Susitna
study that is outlined by the Board of Fish Action
Plan and requested by the commissioner of Fish and
Game and the Cook Inlet Aquaculture Association.
Restructuring the Board of Fish in the Soldotna
Department of Fish and Game will be counter productive
and more costly. Both measures will cause more
problems and solve none. You cannot compromise and
disregard scientific data and biological management.
Commercial fisheries is the number one employer in the
state....
6:38:27 PM
HAL HUME, Fairbanks, said this will be his ninth year serving on
the Fairbanks Advisory Council, and he has had numerous
opportunities to observe the actions of the Board of Fisheries.
The board is without a doubt extremely biased toward the
commercial fishing industry by at least six to one. He said this
resource belongs to all of Alaskans and not just the commercial
guys, many of whom are not even Alaskans. There is strong
evidence that King Salmon are being decimated, he said; the
stocks are diminishing in quality and numbers in the Gulkana
River. He urged them to do everything possible to assure that
Alaskans are represented on future fish boards.
MARVIN PETERS, representing himself, Homer, opposed SB 284. He
stated that he is chairman of the Homer Fish and Game Advisory
Committee and had been on the committee for 25 years; he had
been involved with the Board of Fish process for most of that
time. He felt very confident in saying that there are no runs in
the state that are being killed off by any existing management.
Mat-Su might have some problems, but they are being addressed
now as that is starting to get functional counters and weirs to
replace the ones that didn't work. He noticed a lot of the
comments today forgot to include some valid weir counts that
show the problem is really not as great as people have been
saying.
MR. PETERS said he didn't like the "do not hold/do not own"
language. It doesn't require any actual interest to represent a
user group and certainly personal use representatives would have
to be drawn from a pool of people with little understanding of
major fisheries in the state. Having no special interests means
they know less about it as far as he was concerned. He stated
that the board for the last five years has been the best that it
has ever been.
6:43:53 PM
TOM PAYTON, Chairman, Mt. Enlos Fish and Game Advisory Committee
and resident of Squintna, said he had served on the committee
since 1986. Squintna is 75 miles from salt water up the Yentna
River - in the heart of the northern district problem. He
supported SB 284. When Squintna submitted a proposal to the
board to allow a subsistence wheel fishery on the Yentna, they
were quickly denied that opportunity, although that area had
fish wheel history. He suspected that the board resented
somebody from such a small fishery expecting to get any
allocation out of the Cook Inlet stocks and saw that as the main
problem. Commercial fishermen control the salmon stocks, and the
time has come to change that; this bill could be the one to do
it.
6:46:46 PM
REUBEN HANKE, Kenai Sportfishing Association, Kenai, said it has
been a real struggle to get some sort of sport fish
representation on the board. He supported SB 284.
6:47:47 PM
HOWARD DELO, representing himself, Mat-Su, said he is currently
a sitting member of the Board of Fisheries and opposed SB 284.
It is substituting another set of concerns for the ones that
have already been voiced.
SENATOR GREEN asked what changes or suggestions he has and
indicated he could drop them off at her office.
6:48:52 PM
RON RAINEY, representing himself, Kenai, said he is a past
chairman of the Kenai River Sportfishing and a personal use
fisherman; he supported SB 284. He has been going to Board of
Fisheries meetings for 20 years and described it as you choose
up sides and get your guy appointed to the board and whoever has
the stroke there wins the allocation battle. This allocation
battle needs fairness and needs assigned seats for user groups.
He said public use fishermen have never had a seat on the board
and "they really took a hosing on this last Board of Fish
meeting."
SENATOR WAGONER asked him to define what kind of hosing the
public use sector took.
MR. RAINEY answered that the department had established windows
that allowed a given time that someone from the Valley could
come down and take their public use fishing on the Kenai River.
That was literally set aside because now the local ADF&G
commercial fish manager can do away with that window if his
escapement is at a certain point. Studies from his people
indicate that the windows actually didn't decrease the
commercial catch that much or increase the escapement that much.
It would have been a perfect opportunity for those personal use
fishermen to come down. The managers knew the fish would be
there because the nets were out of the water.
6:51:32 PM
DENNIS HAMANN, Chairman, Mat-Su Fish and Game Advisory
Committee, said in his 10 years on the committee he spent a lot
of time participating in the Board of Fish process and it seems
that it puts way more emphasis on the allocation rather than
biological issues that have come up over the years. He supported
SB 284 because he thought each user group needs fair
representation. Faulty fish counters are the same ones they have
been using for 20 years and there is no doubt that the runs are
in abysmal shape.
6:54:00 PM
BEN ELLIS, representing himself, Anchorage, supported SB 284. He
said he worked with Governors Hickel and Knowles in the 90s on
Board of Fisheries appointments. He agreed with Senator Green
that even though the same problems won't go away, this puts
diversity into statute and provides for an educated balanced
board.
CHAIR HUGGINS commented that he has heard from multiple people
that of the governors that were involved in the process, they
give Governor Knowles relatively high marks.
MR. ELLIS responded that Governor Hickel set the precedent of
putting a third sport fisherman on the board. Governor Knowles
wanted to reach into all areas of the state and into the various
user groups. He felt that commercial fishermen at that time came
with a very balanced mind that looked for scientific and
educated answers. The board's chairs during that time reflected
that.
6:56:53 PM
DAN LEWIS, representing himself, Wasilla, supported SB 284. He
reported the fish in the northern Cook Inlet Susitna River are
in a lot of trouble, and they need to get some fair
representation on the board so that it's fair to all the users.
6:58:31 PM
SENATOR STEVENS commented that he has heard several comments
about fairness, which he agreed with. He comes from a community
that depends heavily on the fishing industry and it causes him
some concerns that out of seven members, only two represent
commercial fishing, the biggest employer in the state. It
produces products that go around the world.
CHAIR HUGGINS thanked everyone for their comments. He held SB
284 in committee.
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